Imperial Chinese Court Regency

Advocacy via Regency for Constitutional Monarchy in China

Archive for the category “illogical premises”

Searching for Monarchists in China Wednesday, January 12, 2011 – repost by TE Yu – original post by – MadMonarchist at 12:12 AM

Recently, the question was posed about what Chinese monarchist groups are operating currently, who these are and who those wishing to restore the Great Qing Empire can support. I regret to say that my ‘easy’ answer is that there are none and so, Qing loyalists have to get to work on the problem. I say that is the “easy” answer because it is not exactly the whole answer. There are some monarchist groups that are currently operating but there are none that I would whole-heartedly recommend. If others wish to, that is their business, but to bring some light to this somewhat confused situation I will highlight those I am most familiar with and explain why I have problems with all of them and why virtually everything about them is disputable; such as whether they are even Chinese, Qing dynasty or monarchist.

The first Chinese monarchist person and/or group (pretty much a one man show I think) that I was ever contacted by was that of a Sino-American from Hawaii named Ji Yao Sui. He claimed to be the successor of the ancient Zhou dynasty, though also a relative of the Great Qing for good measure, and claimed to be the legitimate, “secret” Emperor of China. If there was any doubt about the veracity of his claims, suffice it to say he also claimed to be a practicing Jew, a representative of the late Ming dynasty as well and spent as much time pleading for money to pay his legal bills than he did on anything else (he claimed he was the victim of ‘persecution’ on the part of the Hawaiian police). Obviously, a joke that even I, in my very naïve early monarchist years, was able to recognize instantly. Still, he carpet-bombed a lot of forums, chat rooms websites and emailed a ton of people so his name and claims ended up with an internet presence out of all proportion to his actual importance.

ICCR Note : Sorry, there have never been and never will be Jewish Emperors in China . . . no Jewish Emperors in China, much less even in the Politburo of China. Orthodox Taoists and Confucianists in the Imperial Chinese Court only please. Finally Zhou is designated as a Royal House not an Imperial House. Next!

Next on the list of Chinese pretenders we have one Mr. Lee Chee Chuan. He is the purveyor of the website for the so-called Imperial Qing Restoration Organization. I say “so-called” because (as his name implies) Lee Chee Chuan, who styles himself as “His Imperial Highness” claims descent from the Tang rather than the Qing dynasty and because, as his website states, his goal is not the restoration of the Qing dynasty but rather, “To officially pass the mandate of heaven from the last ruling Qing dynasty back to Han Chinese dynasty.” On another page it is stated that the goal is to “restore” the Qing Emperor only so that he may abdicate in favor of a Han candidate (presumably Mr. Lee Chee Chuan himself). So, despite the name and their use of the Qing Imperial flag, the Imperial Qing Restoration Organization is not at all about a restoration of the Qing Empire. The website also voices support for the Manchuria independence movement (mentioned below) which would also seem to run contrary to any idea of a full restoration of the Great Qing Empire as it existed prior to the 1911 Revolution. Also, as with the Zhou claimant above, this group is not based in China (for obvious reasons) but rather is headquartered out of Malaysia.

ICCR Note : Tibetan Secessionists are criminals under PRC consideration. Please post appropriate bounty on criminal if apprehension required.

Next we have the, evidently serious, Manchukuo Temporary Government. This rather unique organization, when you boil it down, is simply a Manchurian separatist group which seems to have most of its support in Japan and which lists among its aims the revival of the wartime Japanese model of the “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere”. Now, one could point out that (tragically in my view) the Manchurian people are effectively extinct today and that linking to the expansionist policies of World War II Japan is making a nearly impossible goal even more impossible to attain but if it were only the idea of reviving the Empire of Manchukuo and becoming allies of Japan and so on, I would at least have no objections. However, aside from the appropriation of Manchukuo symbols and history there seems to be very little about this organization that has anything to do with the actual Manchukuo Empire or the Manchurian people at all. One could even argue that they are not even monarchist. Rather than advocate for the restoration of the Manchukuo imperial line (which is different from that of the Great Qing as in Manchukuo the heir of the last Emperor was his brother who was married to a Japanese noblewoman) but rather this group practices democracy as well as advocating it. Originally, oddly enough, they claimed the late last Emperor of China as their Emperor from their founding in 2004 (proclaiming themselves a constitutional monarchy in 2006) but later had elections for a new “Emperor” in 2008.

That choice, listed as Aisin-Gioro Hrkit, seems to have lost interest in the project and after being MIA for two years was declared dead by the government in 2010 and after new elections one Aisin-Gioro Sungai was declared “Emperor Yi” of Manchukuo. Most of their officials do not seem to be Asian at all, let alone Manchurian, and one can make of them of what you will. They were enterprising enough to offer anyone Manchukuo citizenship and have passports for sale along with other items so we can also say that, while they may not be anywhere on the Chinese (or Manchu) mainland, capitalism is alive and well with the Manchukuo Temporary Government.

ICCR Note : Manchurian Secessionists are criminals under PRC consideration. Please post appropriate bounty on criminal if apprehension required.

Finally we have the one organization, again not one I would call genuinely monarchist, which does at least claim to operate in China and given their platform that may well be true. That is the Imperial Chinese Court Regency, also known as the Imperial Revival Movement, headed by another pretender claiming to be of noble descent. They are definitely not about restoring the last monarchy to rule in China, nor do they really seem to be about restoring monarchy at all. Rather, they wish to unite all the noble families of the Chinese Empire of the Han nationality to hold the mandate of heaven prior to the fall of the Ming dynasty -so Manchurians need not apply and the Yuan Dynasty does not count either- into a social club existing within and in support of the Chinese Communist Party and the People’s Republic of China. Unlike the previous two organizations mentioned, they are no friends of the Dalai Lama of Tibet and helpfully suggest that he surrender himself to the communist authorities, beg for mercy and then perhaps be restored to a ceremonial position in Tibet. Their goal is to form, from candidates put forward by the assembled dynasties, a collective of rulers whose leader will be elected to the position of ceremonial emperor and upon whose death the leader of another clan will be chosen to succeed him and so on. They claim to support constitutional monarchy for China yet they also support the retention of the People’s Republic of China, which would seem to me to make as much sense as the barefoot boy with shoes on who stood sitting in the grass one cold summer’s day in the middle of the night.

ICCR Note : This is the only viable group cooperating with the PRC that is at least able to openly function in China as civil society.

Now, just for the sake of bringing us back to earth, let me say that none of the actual heirs of the last reigning monarchy in China have had anything to do with these individuals or organizations and I doubt they even know they exist. According to the last official rules of succession in China, following the death of the last Emperor the throne would have passed to his brother, Prince Pu-Chieh (Pujie) and as he had only daughters and the rule was for male succession only, after his death the throne would have passed to his younger half-brother Prince Puren, a Chinese historian born in 1918 who has sons to succeed him. However, in his memoirs the last Emperor states that he adopted his cousin, Prince Yu-yan to be his heir and successor. Also born in 1918 he also has sons to succeed him. Finally (on the ‘third’ hand) in Manchukuo the only legal succession was for Prince Pu-Chieh who was married to a Japanese woman for the very purpose of succeeding his brother with a new imperial line that would incorporate Japanese blood. If that line is adhered to regardless of the fact that he had no sons the “Empress” of Manchukuo would be his second daughter Princess Sheng-yun (the first being killed in Tokyo in 1957.

ICCR Note : Individuals that have passed on, are of no interest to current affairs, and are not viable.

Posted by MadMonarchist at 12:12 AM

ICCR Note on Author’s article :

a) ‘They claim to support constitutional monarchy for China yet they also support the retention of the People’s Republic of China, which would seem to me to make as much sense as the barefoot boy with shoes on who stood sitting in the grass one cold summer’s day in the middle of the night.’

One word for the (rather disrespectful, though colourful) author @Mad Monarchist – hegelian dialectic. Premise 1 does not necessarily preclude premise 2, nor can either and both not exemplify elements that are not always mutually exclusive. Learn to think before you deign to write. The author’s description of ICCR isn’t very accurate. ICCR proposes 6 Imperial Houses with any noble houses supporting.

b) ‘ Now, just for the sake of bringing us back to earth . . . ‘

Apparently @MadMonarchist would prefer China does not ‘re-imperialise’ without the apathetic deadwood that left China without an aristocracy to fade into the common masses of citizens, presumably to enjoy ‘common civilian lives’. This necessitates the ‘System of Claimants’ which can be found in our Vol. 1 to re-establish, not necessarily pretenders but REPLACEMENTS for those who have let their rein on the whatever extant aristocratic caste slip into oblivion. We have no interest in fallen aristocrats, we do have interest in those arising, though they may not necessarily be plutocratic to qualify. We aim for the heavens, so please do not ‘bring us back to earth’. To all who understand, ‘noblesse oblige, and lobby for Constitutional Monarchy in China is no easy work.

c) Next we have the, evidently serious, Manchukuo Temporary Government

This author is evidently engineering the downfall of the PRC by fetting a potential pro-terrorist group that no respectable PRC official would associate with. We leave the reader to judge as to the intentions of the rather transparently intended writer. Supports secession of Manchuria outright. How funny. Try helping the Republic of New Africa as envisioned by Martin Luther King be established instead, better chance there. We doubt the author even dares visit China after talking like this. Shame on the foolish, insane and subversive . . .

d) If that line is adhered to regardless of the fact that he had no sons the “Empress” of Manchukuo would be his second daughter Princess Sheng-yun (the first being killed in Tokyo in 1957.

Then the author proceeds to cast aspersions on lack of male heirs and deaths of the ‘last’ Manchu Princess . . . racism possibly? Well at least no love for China’s apex classes at any rate.

Dr. Sun Yat Sun’s spirit will not forgive idiots who want to revive the hard won topple of the  Manchu Qing Dynasty instead of reviving a Han ‘Eternal’ Dynasty (bless the ‘Boxers’) . . .

The slogan “Oppose the Qing, Restore the Ming(反清复明, fǎn qing, fù míng) used by Sun Yat-sen during the Xinhai Revolution says enough, then we have a clown coming along saying they want to revive the Qing Dynasty . . .

The lack of common sense, lack of historical viewpoint, and lack of logic of the ‘ Imperial Qing Restoration Organisation’ is evident. Quite skewed and entirely against the spirit of China’s majority Hanness and modern China. House Aisin Gioro (which the ‘Majesty’ Lee Chee Chuan is not even a member of and who was even unable to intelligibly reply to a query of few from our quasi-PRC affiliated personnel is not viable to represent Beijing and probably be arrested on criminal charges – inciting secession for one). Also only an Aison Gioro clansman can hold the royal mantle of the Qing Royal House . . .  to be revived as a vassal under suzerain of the 6 Imperial Han Houses.

The Boxers’ martial spirits will not rest peacefully at such careless words by ‘Qing Restorers’ and will likely punish people running around spouting nation subverting anachronisms. Quite offensive and disturbing. Once again – ‘OPPOSE THE QING’, but this time SUPPORT the CPPCC of the PRC, and the ICCR’s Constitutional Monarchy Lobby/Association.

Summary of Debunks :

a) ‘Qing Restoration Organisation’ is a showcase of skewed logic which supports non-viable Tibetan Secession to boot.

b) The ‘Temporary Government of Manchuko’ is for secession of the Province of Manchuria, another impossibility.

c) Then the author mentions a long dead line half a century ago.

d) Only the ICCR is not fighting the PRC outright (being a supporter of all Core Interests of the Fatherland . . . ), has been communicating with the PRC, and at least offers a viable and sincere path to Constitutional Monarchy (a civilising influence if anything) while maintaining China’s territorial integrity and able to function openly and in tandem with the PRC without fear.

What we have to put up with for lobbying for Constitutional Monarchy in China, and a Han Emperor for China . . . Long live the Fatherland.

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